Black and Vegan: Healthy Consumption in Black Communities

This podcast is part of the Rhodes College Just Food series, which addresses food inequality through discussion of production, access, distribution, and consumption in Memphis and beyond. In this semester-long project, students and community members have come together to promote empowerment through awareness and equity.

Trinity Barnes: What’s up y'all, I’m Trinity Barnes and my partners Kirstin O’Neal and Olivia Evans will be hosting this episode, “Black and Vegan”. We want to highlight vegan food as something that can be eaten on a daily basis, accessible, and relatively inexpensive to black people. A lot of the time black people stray away from eating vegan because veganism is portrayed in the media as something that is extreme and expensive. As Black women, we’ve noticed that our families don't always eat healthy. Any greens or veggies are smothered in different seasonings and there’s always a presence of some type of meat whether that be beef, pork, or chicken. This Because those were the types of meals that were always accessible to us. Some of the business owners that you will meet in this podcast like, Two Vegan Sistas, Plant Based Heat, and Guru’s City Vegan, have all concluded that you don't have to be vegan to eat vegan options, in fact most of their customers aren’t fully vegan. They also indicated that gearing towards vegan options have led to an increase in health benefits. Veganism in Memphis is fairly a new thing as Memphis is considered the barbeque capital. There’s not a lot of vegan places here, so it was a joy to find these amazing black businesses who cater to those interested in veganism or those who just want to eat healthy.

Olivia Evans:The first black business we interviewed was Two Vegan Sistas, owned by Dr. Bretta King and her sister Belinda. Two Vegan Sistas started as a restaurant back in 2013 and is now a catering and meal plan business. They are more so an older vegan business and have served many people in Memphis. We learned a lot about the transition from a restaurant to a catering business, their contribution to the vegan scene in Memphis, and things Dr. King has learned about veganism and those who eat vegan food. The first thing we asked was how and why they started their business.

Dr. Bretta King: We started this business because we know there was a need for it because obviously, there are not that many vegan restaurants or vegan choices in Memphis, there are more now since we started. When we first started, there was only at the time one other vegan restaurant. And so, there are only two like when we started. So just to put the option out there. So, a lot of people think that veganism is like a religion or you gotta, everybody has to be vegan. It's not that just regular people that want to eat plant based, it's really what it is. And so, we always tried to have a non-judgmental approach. Almost none of our customers are vegan because there's not that many vegans in Memphis. But the people enjoy our food. So, we offer a product for people that want to purchase the product, not to say, oh, you have to be vegan or this and that. But people who want to be vegan, they approach us as well. And we walk them through the steps like well, how to become vegan, how to eat healthy.

Olivia Evans: Dr. King also talked about why she became a vegan and how it was an interesting experience, especially since growing up in Memphis, it’s hard to stray from meats and dairy.

Dr. Bretta King:I became a vegetarian back in 1995. When I was in college,I just did it just to be doing something I want to try something different. I didn't expect it to last. I did it as a New Year's resolution back January 1, 1995. I said I wonder if I could go without eating meat. And I did go without eating meat for like a whole month and I didn't die. And I said oh I can do it. I'm from Memphis, Tennessee and I was raised eating mostly just meat, not any fruits and vegetables at all. But I did it, didn't die. And I feel, I feel actually feel good that I could do it. So, Idid it for a while. And then when I went home for Christmas that year in 1995, back to Memphis, I noticed that when I tried to eat the holiday foods that my grandmother prepared, I couldn't do it, even though I wanted to. So, I want to fit in with my family. I didn't want everybody to think, you know, I was trying to be funny, weird or anything, but I just couldn't, because when I would try to eat the food, it just tastes like oil just to taste like a mouthful or taste like a dead carcass. And I didn't think I would feel that way. You know, so wow, my taste buds and change this food used to be delicious, it smells good and stuff. So, I was like, okay, this is who I am, I have to be me, I can't pretend to make other people, you know, feel comfortable. I have to be who I am just like they're who they are. And so, then I started reading and research and learning how to be healthy as a vegetarian and learning different types of vegetarian. Then that's when I stumbled across veganism, which is, you know, without any animal products. So, I strive, it took me four years to become vegan, because I loved dairy products. But then I learned how to make my own milks and ice creams and cheeses, non-dairy, and they were really good. Because of my roommates in college, they enjoyed my food. And of course, no, no one I knew was vegan, but they still enjoyed the way my food tasted and the way it looked. So, after once I mastered that I was like, well, I don't need dairy I mean if I make my own and, and it's vegan, so yeah, so that's how I became vegan, no particular reason because, of course, nothing was wrong with me when I was still young.

Olivia Evans:Just like Dr. King, our other interviewees became vegan for health benefits and to feel good. Since the typical soul food diet involves large amounts of meat, fat, and sugar, there is a large risk of health related illnesses such as obesity, heart disease, and stroke resulting from eating this type of diet. (Belle 2009)Eating healthier is always something to strive for to prevent these instances.

Dr. Bretta King: But the benefit has been that over these past years, everyone in my peer group in my family, that's my age, they are on all these medications, they have had strokes. They're like diabetic, they have all these different things wrong with them. And of course, we're from the same gene pool, the only difference is the way that I eat my lifestyle. So, I don't have I'm not on any medications, and like never get sick and have a very high immune system. So, it's benefited me over the years, even though I didn't go into it for that reason. That's been like one of the benefits.

Olivia Evans: Another question that we asked Dr. King was her food source. You’d think that it would be a challenge to find a good source that would have fresh produce in Memphis. Everyone we have interviewed have found ways in which to buy fresh produce whether that be a Restaurant Depot, Whole Foods, or the Farmer’s Market. Outside of that, they’ve all either have already worked with small farmers in the past or plan to in the future. For example, J.R. from Plant Based Heat talked about working with Black Seeds Farm to collaborate on a farm-to-table project.

Dr. Bretta King:We buy mostly from farmers markets when we can. When the farmers market doesn't have an ingredient we need, we go to Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, mainly Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, sometimes Sprouts. But yeah, that's the majority of our, um, that even Amazon has bulk items, bulk organic items on Amazon. So, we do that a lot as well.

Olivia Evans: An additional interesting fact that Dr. King mentioned was about food waste. She strongly recommends that new food businesses should start off with catering or food trucks as it causes less food waste and is easier to maintain rather than starting off with a sit-down restaurant. We see this with Plant Based Heat and Guru’s City Vegan as they have started with catering and pop-ups.

Dr. Bretta King: Yeah, it's less waste as well. Because I think that they, they can kind of predict, like, who's coming. And then also, I know what the, some of the food trucks you are allowed to like save food, like up to three days. And so, they do that as well. But they don't make a whole lot of food. They might say well we ran out of that today, and they just keep pushing, like, whatever, they still have a menu too, they get rid of everything. But with the restaurant, you can't do it that way, you got to go back there and cook what's on the menu. Or go back there and see if you have what's on the menu, you might cook enough for that person to try to make a little bit extra for whoever else might come in. But somebody might not order that. And then you already made that, you wasted time, wasted money because nobody's gonna eat that and you got to make something else. You know, so it's just, it's hard.

Kirstin O’Neal: Our next black Vegan specialist that we interviewed here in Memphis was Da Vegan Guru. He is a huge advocate for access to quality healthy foods, and it must be delicious if Tupac had his vegan spaghetti. He went from music to the food industry in LA, did really well, and moved his business to Memphis. Da Guru is planning to open up his first restaurant on the Highland strip after doing multiple pop ups and food services, like his Thanksgiving: Feeding 300 Mouths. Here are some things he had to say about his journey and career goals and why he decided to bring veganism to Memphis.

Da Vegan Guru: Man, it's amazing. My career over 30 years brought me through a lot of experiences. I call myself black Forrest Gump, you know what I'm saying. Because of all these stories, I'll sit you on a bench and feed you vegan knowledge. But anyway, I met a lot {inaudible due to connection}. And you know, I told you I was in LA. I was in the music industry. I traveled, you know, and one of the things that appealed to me most was that in the south, you don't have the opportunities or the you know, options that you have on the west coast in New York now in Atlanta. I got a spot in Miami. And that's like the south that was my first really southern type of energy and no one had food you know, they had no good quality tasting vegan food you better eat in Starbucks you know, I'm saying no, no, we need flavor ecology. So how to bring in some good flavor to the south with obesity, the diabetes among our children, different unhealthy eating, you know, things going on, they could really benefit from this plant based movement that struck me and a lot of others, you know. I work with a lot of these industries throughout the years that could really benefit Memphis and Memphis' goals.Which I call the black gold the children, the energy, the people {Memphians} are intelligent very creative, you know, saying it's a vibe, you know, say so, I felt like it was important to offer this food in Memphis and of cause my partner is from Memphis or his mom is from Memphis so you know we got together and we said should we do LA or should we Memphis like I said LA is inundated with opportunities and options for people to eat plant base. Let's go to Memphis. So here we go!

Kirstin O’Neal: Agreed, as we mentioned earlier in this podcast, Memphis is known to have barbeque and not so much of vegan options. Then he went on more about one of his favorite experiences on healthy eating education. Cupboard raids.

Da Vegan Guru: Man it's just you know, good opportunity to really you know, help a lot of people one thing we do is we do a health healthy healing vibration, where we get clients who have their ailments and we go in and freeze rate them you know, Ray this fridge, change out the whole you know, cupboards with the right foods that feed in the herbs that feed and heal the body and they end up putting away the medication and you know, getting up and running around and just healing so that's one of the things that we do

Kirstin O’Neal: Direct food access is so important, but it is difficult to try and change someone’s eatings habits and go towards a more healthy decision. We understand that it isn’t possible for someone to turn vegan in one day or try something completely different, and stop your habits cold turkey. Da Guru expanded on this when we asked him about one of his most challenging moments in his career.

Da Vegan Guru: I would just say the most challenging moments as Da Guru of 30 years doing something that back in the day nobody would do it. I'm from the projects in New York. Cedric The Entertainer named me tempos and tofu you know, so it's like going back home when they're trying to feed brothers some hummus and stability, I mean crazy. So I had to learn how to create food that had that flavor and authentic tastes of whatever it's meant to be like so I'm smacking bacon double cheeseburgers in they mouth. Because how are you going to turn them how you gonna change if you don't hit them in they lip so one of the challenges we had to overcome early on was textures, finding the right textures for the food, And then be able to season the food, and its some Guru vegan seasoning . So that when you taste it they know that you're lying or that you lie and it's really his hand. But wait a minute, this is chicken it's it's breaking apart like chicken like this. You guys got skin on it, that type of energy. So I would say the most challenging for me was to take food. You know, vegans has been vegan for 20 years tasting food and I never tasted food like this. I never tasted vegan food that tastes like this. So I guess that's kind of one the things.

Kirstin O’Neal: That is something that can be challenging to do, and I believe that all of our partners could agree on that. So, we asked Da Guru a question about this new vegan wave that is approaching in Memphis, and what advice he would give to the future black vegan gurus.

Da Vegan Guru: The advice I would give is go from the heart you know saying if you try and plant bass and it did some did some brought some goodness to use some help to you or to family or enhanced you in some ways return that to your your customer return that to their clients you know saying whatever benefit was given to you you know I'm saying you should pay to shine that through your business back don't have a business where you goofy and you you given the people some you know some secondhand you going to the dollar store to get sugar and other things mixed with something that's plant based. No we're not doing that. No more going in the Carl's Jr. to get a burger when they got the possible burger GMO, burger. And just throw it in research. Understand it for yourself. Like be really about it yourself. And then you can share that and give that to others. You feel like I call myself a minister of men. In fact, my mom and me the Minister of food, got to give it up for my mom 92 Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo 28 Vegan turned vegan at 70 Put a cane down, lost 70 pounds, got rid of diabetes, stop playing with me. She's like she's in her 60s right now. Anyway, Mom dukes named me the Minister of food. So that's where I'm at with it. And get be that minister {inaudible due to sound} Put your heart into it and be your own Guru, real talk.

Trinity Barnes: Plant Based Heat is another black owned vegan business here in Memphis, and to say that this restaurant is successful would be an understatement. JR has worked with the Rhodes Black Student Association multiple times through providing vegan food options for events. But this isn’t the first time his food has been on the go. When asked about how his plant based business became so known in a city of barbeque, he credited a lot of the publicity to hosting pop up shops in both Atlanta and Memphis.

J. R. Groove: For sure. I mean, the pop ups, building my brand, you know, going to pop up every week building an Instagram page. So, you know, we've got social media now. So that helped a whole lot. Just building my brand instead of like passing out flyers like back in the day, you have to pass out flyers and emails and whatever the slow way to do it. Radio advertising I have not spent one dime on Radio to to promote plant based. But God keep sending people like y'all and then y'all telling somebody how y'all interview me, you and your group of people see. I've had so many interviews that I don't have to pay for advertising. I don't ask for it, but I just a favor that comes with, you know, being having good customer service being friendly and trying to serve good food. You know what I'm saying? So you get this response or this, you would say karma or this recompense of you doing this or you get this back. So the energy was just keeps coming back. I haven't spent a dollar on marketing or commercial appeal. ABC 24, Fox 13, Kay 97 WBIA. Everybody's eaten here before and then they get on radio and get on TV and they talk about it and people just coming here, I got churches coming in here by the droves. And we just every day we're busy and you know, you know, we may have a time where it's not like super busy and we really need that time so we could catch up, you know, and we're just a small kitchen, you know, that's our small kitchen. We've got a big menu. But when we get like 20, 30 orders, you know what I'm saying? That's a little kitchen to be holding. Yeah, but but the reason it takes so long is because we want it to be the same way it was when you came yesterday, you know, saying you, we want it to be brushed in different and it is vegetables. So, you know, if we do cook it fresh up from scratch, it doesn't take that long like meat, you know, I'm saying so it's just about the prep process and all the other things that we're still building a staff, you know, and so all those other things that happen behind the scenes. But yeah, so for the most part, you know, we are excited that people are coming out and supporting the business we're very grateful. You know, we're very grateful for that.

Trinity Barnes: And to say his restaurant is so famous in the two cities, he’s still very humble and doesn’t hesitate to give any advice to up and coming business owners. I asked him to specifically think of non contemporary black business owners like himself and how they could prosper.

J. R. Groove: Yeah. I mean, you know, find your find your niche and stay focused, you know, stay in your lane, you know whatI'm saying? And like, if you don't, you know you're going to have obstacles when you're trying to do something, you know, good or bad, but especially when when it's something good or you're focused on something positive, you're going to have obstacles. And whether it be things that you hear or things that you see is going to make you try to make a quick decision instead of staying focused. There's a lot of things I've could've changed. I could do this because of something didn't work right? And that would have been wrong. You know, the my my mandate was what God gave me the vision. He said, stay focused. Right. And that sounds like, you know, cliche you know, "stay focused my brother" , but that's life changing to me, or life altering because if I get out of line of the vision, the original vision then it's going to take, you know, time to get back on track. You know what I'm saying? And then now you've missed a couple of days or you missed a couple of weeks that could set you back a year or whatever in realtime. You know, God is outside of time, but in our time, you know, we can make a mistake that you can date the wrong guy. And sol tie with that situation and now you used up a couple of years trying to shake that off. You know what I'm saying? Or get out of this, you know what I mean? I'm just trying to make an example. I guess is not right now. But nah it's,You know what I mean? That's the best example I'm trying to use because you can get out. You could pick the wrong situation. You know, you can get the same kind of business to open up down the street. Now you trying to alter your menu and do this and do that right? You know, you just you stay in your lane, you know, and you and you be confident in that. That's that you be confident in what you chose to do. And if it's your passion, then can nobody stop you. I don't care what happens if you if you know that's what you're called to do and you pass, at least in season, you don't have to be your destiny, but it's your passion and you call to do that in that moment. You stay focused and you grind it. You do everything you know to do. You do your research, research, research, research is key. And that's like, you know, that can answer. A lot of it can help you out of a lot of situations, you know and research, you know. So yeah, I mean, those are the things that I had to do. So that's the best advice I can give that I know that keeps me in line every day because you're going to have challenges every day.

Trinity Barnes: This answer personally stuck with me because there's so many scriptures in the Bible and testimony like this, just telling you to mind your business and stay in your lane, mind your business, focus on you and this will naturally build yourself higher and I try to live by that. Similarly to the last question, I asked him if there was anything he would specifically tell his younger self. Earlier in the interview, he mentioned that he once owned a Crumpy’s which coincidentally his new restaurant is next to right now. So I told him to think about speaking to that JR, the one that owned the Crumpy’s.

J. R. Groove: You know, obviously, do your research. And, you know, as far as the business, you know, I really took my time, you take your time. You know, a young age, you making money, you excited. You spend it. “I got it. I can spend it.” And now I'm a couple of years older. You know what I'm saying? Not that much older. You know what I mean? I'm still young. I'm just trying to let y’all know, I said that with emphasis right now. So now you just, you know, sometimes I don't have regrets because they were like learning experiences, too. So some of the stuff I did, I was stupid. Makes me not do it now, you know what I'm saying? So it's not really a regret. Like long as it didn’t kill me, you know? Now I am going to be like, Oh yeah, now I can tell somebody else like, “Yo, don't do this. Just, you know, take your time, be patient.” It's just, you know, it just works out. You know, I'm saying, just be patient and be patient. And that goes with the stay focused. But, you know, just just be patient. You know, I'm saying it, but you know, it's just you spoke about the Bible was a thing. There's a thing that says, "work to rest." And then when you work it to rest, hows the best way I could say that? It has a lot to do with being patient, but you're being confident to know that it's really already done. So you're resting in that promise that you already saw and you're now trying to make it happen

Trinity Barnes: JR, like many other black businesses, credits manifesting and prayer to his success today. He even talked about how it took him a few tries and some extra hard work to get Plant Based Heat off the ground in Memphis.

J. R. Groove: Yes. You spoke it. You believed it. You don't just do nothing. You still got to do the work. You know, we're on this Earth, so we still got to physically do the work. You know, I'm saying, God, ain’t finna just come down off the throne and be like, hanging your nails on the wall for you and paint your walls. I still had my, I painted. You know, I'm there. I did a lot of the work myself. You know, I'm saying to get this, you know, because this place was a mess. It mean it ain’t just gorgeous, but this is what it is, you know, and it's a lot, is a long way from where it was. So, yeah, you probably could scroll down my Instagram. think I took a picture standing in front of the counter when it was just a piece of the thing was hanging off the ceiling and it was all kind of stuff that we had to do to get it going. But like I said, just it'll come. Just be patient. It all comes together. You know, I had three different opening dates. They never happened, but it wasn't. It was a deadline. I made it one, a deadline I was facing, so I didn't get out of it all out of sorts about it. It was like, I bet we ain't gonna open January 1st, bet. We ain't gonna open March 1st. So, OK, so we didn't open Mother's Day dang, you know, every goal I had just wasn't. It wasn't time. Juneteenth bam! Grand opening day, six months into the year that I wanted to open in January. I think it's all good, though I kept doing pop ups every pop up. I learned something. I changed a lot of recipes and tweak this tweak that now I got a system. PeopleI don't know back here working and love them like they, my kids and they doing. Now I've got thousands of people eating stuff that I started in my little studio apartment in Atlanta, when you know what I mean, so you stay focused then be patient. It's coming. They're real passionate about that. I'm passionate about speaking and manifestation on the right because it’s true to me, it has to be, you know, this is real life, you know, and it ain't just no magic, you know, and it's real, you know?

Trinity Barnes: We finished the interview with asking him what was some of his favorite moments throughout his career. Whether it be involving food, entertainment, or entrepreneurship.

J. R. Groove: Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I did a lot. I was in the army. OK, so in coming out of the army, I knew that I liked entertainment. Before I went to the army, I was in the band in high school, I played football, in high school. I was always a people person, but I'm a loner, so I guess I could be an introvert and out. Extrovert is an extrovert, introverted extrovert. I guess I could be a little bit of both because I'm cool with myself. I'm cool. Not, you know, having a crowd, but if I have a crowd, I can rock it I used to dj, so I DJ at a radio. A lot of college parties, I came out of the military djing. And then that's how I got into radio. But I always was an entrepreneur. You know, I was cutting grass at nine years old, making my own money, so I was always entrepreneurial. It was something about making your own money that that just stuck with me. You know, I'm saying something about making people happy stuck with me because when I do DJ, you know, people were excited. Music is universal, food is as well. So music and food has just been my thing. I've been making a living off that for years andI'm doing so. So, you know, just it's exciting to see people. Respond to something that you dreamed up to give people in a positive thought. You know, not just to make money. Money is like. It just comes with it, just a part of that. You know what I'm saying, if I woke up every day like that, like "I need to make ten grand a day. And if I don't make my goal now, I'm stressed or no more." That's not my focus. That's going to happen. But I used to focus about that, and it was stressful. Right. I could come in here and we don't have no customers for two hours. And I'm telling my people, yeah, because we got to get set up, we ain't ready. Let's get ready. Next thing you know, 30 customers are here. I'm like, Yo, it's always going to be like, this, always going to happen, right? You know what I'm saying? You just got to believe that what you got to keep doing, you can't be like worrying about what you see because this will get you in trouble. You know, saying once you believe it right here, this ain't talking about. Know I'm saying, you know, we walk by faith, not by sight. So that's that's what I mean when I say that. But we need eyes. So it's not saying it in a negative way. Right? But so, you know, like you said on a high note, just, you know, the energy from seeing people respond to my food like you just say, "Hey, man, just to your onions and to you every fry being seasoned", yo, that made me feel real good. You know, like you say, every fry was seasoned. And I was like, Yeah, that was right. You know? And that's just something that you could do so unconsciously.

Trinity Barnes: And there is no lie in that, I mean, if you have the time, please go and try some of Plant Based Heat’s food, they don’t miss a step and indeed every fry will be seasoned.

Kirstin O’Neal: What amazing partnerships we had throughout this episode. We recommend that you try the foods from all of them. Go to Plant Based Heat and follow Guru City Vegan on instagram @gurucityvegan901 for info on their next pop up and the opening of their first restaurant. And switch things up a notch and get some vegan catering from the Two Vegan Sistas for your next event, you won’t regret it. But we discussed way more than just healthy consumption within the black community. Topics on access to healthy foods, and food waste was brought up in these interviews. There was a sense of importance that we noticed in these vegan experts that the food that they create ends up in the mouths of their community and not wasted. And we don't know if you all noticed, but they all started or continued as pop up businesses or catering and how efficient was that for not only getting hungry customers, but also keeping the food waste down. They all also believed in the power that veganism had within staying healthy, and strongly recommended putting more vegan foods in your diet. Also, not just feeding them delicious vegan foods, but educating people how having a plant based diet, can be beneficial to your health and help battle common diseases that are commonly shown within the black community. And like it was said throughout in this podcast episode, you don’t have to be vegan to have vegan food, so might as well treat your taste buds with some plant based food.